Category: News and Views
Terri Schiavo is the American who has had a tube which was feeding her removed and will die within 2 weeks if it isn't replaced. George W. Bush and her parents want her to live. Her husband who also has another woman wants her to die. She had a heart attack 15 years ago. I think she should die. Whilst she's in a vegititive state she can be no use to society, and keeping her alive is just a burden on resources. I think that people should have their lives terminated once they reach such a state if it is believed that they won't recover and shouldn't be allowed to spend more than half a year living in vegetitive state.
I don't like the idea of starving someone to death but it's time for her parents to stop being selfish let go. Terri has been laying in a hospital bed for the last 15 years in a progressive vegitative state. Why would anyone want to live like that? She can't speak, has little feeling, no volintary movement or motor skills. Catscans of her brain show she doesn't even have enough brain activity to think. She looks horrible, not even like a person as she has no facial expreshions or movement. I think it's unfair to keep someone like that alive for so long. She's never waking up so let her go. It sounds cruel but isn't keeping her alive for another 15 years in a vegitative state even crueler?
it is a very tough one to call. I posted a similar topic some time back, but this was in response to a polie officer who had killed his terminally ill wife who no longer wanted to live. Let's forget about the contributions to society ... etc as those are not of consequence here. The fact of the matter is, this woman is in a serious vegetative state. She will never recover, however, she is also sadly not in a position to decide whether she wants to live or die. I know that if it was me, I wouldn't want to live like that, but has she expressed any view in the past? it is not really for anyone to decide who lives or dies, unless that person is deemed to be brain dead
The only thing that concerns me is that starving is not a way to die. Okay, there's more. She's apparently learning to say "I love you." Also, she doesn't have a living will. Her husband says she wouldn't wanna be like that, but I question his motives since he's with another woman. I question a lot of this. Also, what's to stop others from killing or starving other severely disabled people. Say a baby's born close to that state. Do we kill that baby? I don't think so!
Well, she's been like that for 15 years. Even if she's learning to say"I love you", does she recognize who she's saying that to? Probably not. And it's true that the husband's motivation might be for money, but honestly, if she's not in a position to decide, yet in a conscious state, she probably would have said she would rather die than live like that, then she should be allowed to die, seeing as she really has no real reason to be alive anymore.
well if she's going to be allowed to die, shouldn't it be allowed to happen in a slightly more humane fashion? i mean starving someone to death isn't very humane is it.
If your husband that they wanted to be like that when they died would you not fight to phphill there dieing wish
That woman has no life at all right now, If she would come out of her vegetive state they would have to break every bone in her body and reset them all. Because she had been laying in one position too long. Yes I understand how difficult it must be to make the kind of decision for somebody elses life, but that's why she should have had a living will in case something happened to her that would have caused her to be on life support the rest of her life. Right now she's brain dead, and there has no quality to life, if she does wake up there is no guaruntee that she wont be like a vegetable for the rest of her life. She suffered brain damage and if she would wake up she would most likely never be the same again, and that would be awful to witness from any side of her family and friends, so why not let her go home to the Lord where she can be pain free and not have to suffer anymore.
This issue is not goin to die anytime soon. Even after the final desicion is made about her. It's really sad to see people have to suffer like she ultimetly is. But then again, what can u do. It should be simply the parents and no one elses decision in my opinion.
In this country, her husband would now be considered to be her next of kin because she is married, and therefore, he would have the power to make the decisions on her behalf. Some people have criticised the husband because he now is in another relationship, but ask yourselves this. If you ended up in that kind of state, would you want your husband/wife/partner to put their life on hold for the longest time until you were no longer there? I certainly wouldn’t. Sure I wouldn’t want him to forget me, but as I would be unable to love him in a way he needed to be loved, I would want him to go and find happiness.
As for her parents wanting to keep her alive, I think this decision is based on emotion and the inability to let go. It is only natural as a parent, that you seak to keep that child alive that you created. When you have a child, you deliberately create a life, and therefore it goes against everything that you are as a parent to then make the conscious decision to end that life. I therefore feel that in a lot of situations it is best for the courts to make the decisions, as the judges are imparcial, and can look out for the best interests of the patient.
Well we can't look out for someones interests unless tey're able to tell us what they are, and why does it matter how she dies? she's going to die no matter how she's killed and I think that it should be done as quickly as possible.
she should be allowed to die but surely in 2005 they can find a better solution that starving her to death...couldn't she be given a large overdose of sedative, like you would with an animal, its the kindest way I can think of to relieve her suffering....and as for the family hoping she will improve, Ms Schiavo has been pvs for 15 years ,if she was going to improve it would have happened long before now...
I've never seen her parents offer to pay the costs associated with keeping her alive. If this is what they really want well, then they should pay for the hospital bed, feeding, drugs etc to keep her alive. My main problem with her being alive in a vegetative state after 15 years is that she is draining the state's / hospitals resources that could be used to save someone who just had an accident and whose life might depend on the treatment he/she receives. It's really a hard one to call although I generally agree with her husband's decission to try and fulfil her wish. This is just another example of how the advances in medicine have created new moral issues for us that we can't easily resolve, all of a sudden we have power over someone's life really and it's a very tricky ting to do.
Cheers
-B
Well it seems the court of appeal rejected the pleas of Mrs Schiavo’s parents to replace her feeding tubes, so it would seem that she will most probably soon die.
Whilst I understand that there comes a time when someone who has been in a serious vegetative state for so long should be allowed to die, what bothers me, is the manner in which she is being allowed to die. Usually in the case of someone who is brain dead, or who has a serious illness from which they are not going to recover, treatment is withdrawn, either by switching of any life support, i.e. a ventilator, or by withdrawing life saving drugs which means the patient’s condition will deteriorate rapidly and that patient will then usually die within a matter of hours. In the case of Mrs Schiavo, it seems that there are no treatments to withdraw, which would indicate that she is not being kept alive artificially or through the means of drugs. This would therefore also indicate that she is not brain dead. As Euthenasia is not legal in the states, the only means by which she therefore will be able to die, is by the removal of the tubes through which she receives food and water. So effectively what will happen, is that she will starve to death. And this process will take up to two weeks. Now let’s bear in mind that not only is she being deprived of food, but of water as well. The reasons for this, I believe, are because you can live on water alone for significantly longer than you can live without it. While I refuse to say I agree with what WW has said above, I do to the degree that this woman should be allowed to die as quickly as possible, surely there should be a more humane way?
Another point that has not been raised here is the fact that Bush has an average IQ of 95 ..therefore he is mentally unfit, to make such a decision, and unable to understand the implications and ramifications, of his unjust decision which has clearly a ploy to pacify the conservative pro- lifers..he does NOT have Ms Schiavo's interests at heart, he is simply playing god, and that kind of self righteous arrogance is unforgivable!...
..thank goodness her life was a mere existence and she had stated that she would not have wanted to carry on in a pvs state....sadly HER wishes were ignored...what parent would wish to prolong the type of suffering that MS Schiavo endured for 15 years...its cruelty beyond belief...
SB, I agree with you on that, the manner in which she will die if this decission stands sounds really horrible indeed. I mean, imagine starving to death and not being able to scream outfor help or do anything about it. And, another point, one may say "oh if this happens I want to be killed" but close to the actual moment it is going to happen, when you really realize what you asked for you may change your mind, shouldn't you be allowed to do that, have your voice heard? I mean, I've tried to imagine what it would feel like once you've jumped off a bridge and you are falling and you finally realize there's nothing you can do to reverse your decission and you're just waiting for the final hit .. I guess the thought came about when I was jumping off a cliff in Mexico, it was only 20-foot tall but it was enough so that you had time to think as you were falling down and it was a very scary, yet fun, experience .. but, my point is right now if she was in a state to speak she definitely would scream out not wanting to be starved to death, she may still want to die, but not like this.
Cheers
-B
that's just it though isn't it. She isn't able to tell them what she wants. And whilst I do feel that it isn't fair keeping someone alive like that indefinitely, I don't think the end that she will have is exactly humane.
When you have reached the stage of standing on the bridge your mind is bloody well made up..you have only tried once I believe and that was a 1/2 hearted attempt as your still here ..I'm something of an expert when it comes to bumping off one's self...my 2 attempts were deadly serious and it was down to fate,good timing and medical skill,that I'm alive and very good it is too.
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..Also I very much doubt if Ms Schiavo will be aware of her death, after all she has been in a coma for 15 years, what kind of effect do you suppose that has had on her brain I'd say catastrophic...
um, I don't think b's jumping off a bridge was a suecide attempt ... although I'm sure he might correct me if I'm wrong ... I think it was merely one of those things you do .. jumping off a bridge into water or .. something .. one of those nutty things people do ... I think he merely wished to point out that one could potentially have a change of heart at the end, which is not beyond the relms of possibility, and then not be able to do anything about it.
sb is right, it was just one of these crazy fun things you culd do at a park in Mexico. Somehow though as I was jumping off in my mind I connected it with a picture a friend ofmine described to me of a person jumping out of the twi towers, of the 80th floor, somehow someone managed to snap a picture of that person as he was coming down and the look on his face .. of course I never actually saw it but the idea of the image was just so terrifying .. the floor was on fire so he preferred to go this way. So, anyways, somehow I linked the two experiences together ... sorry if Imy post was a bit misleading or disjointed there it all made sense in my head. No, I've never tried, never considered it, life's too amazing and wonderful and it's not mine to decide when it's all over . Well, we don't now how she feels or what she feels, that's the scary part.
it was pure and utter idiocy.
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there is no correlation between jumping for fun and leaping from the 80th floor,because its better than burning to death...the people in mexico did it purely to feel the adreanlin also and what is crucial here...they had a choice whether or not they carried out the jump, those poor feckers on the towers had none...
it was pure and utter idiocy.
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there is no correlation between jumping for fun and leaping from the 80th floor,because its better than burning to death...the people in mexico did it purely to feel the adreanlin also and what is crucial here...they had a choice whether or not they carried out the jump, those poor feckers on the towers had none...
of course you can't draw comparisons. no one can compare jumping off a bridge for adrennalin to having t jump out of the 80th floor of the twin towers, but you could think of how those felt who did it, it must have been terrifying, no one can even begin to imagine what it was like. But equally you can't say someone is an idiot for doing something like that for an adrenallin rush. people do all sorts for a rush, and why shouldn't they. better to jump off a bridge than do drugs i reckon.
Eehm, nothing idiotic about that particular jump, it was a favorite activity down there and having been a swimmer for over 10 years I know everythig there is to know about diving and how to minimize the impact once you hit the water, the 40-year-old 240 pound guys were doing it so I joined in and the only thing that connected the two things in my head was the crazy sensation of falling and nowing that you are falling and your only way outis to hit whatever you are falling towards, in my case I knew it was water and I was not even going to feel bruised and it was fun and exciting .. but imagine if what you are falling towards is concrete and you now that split second will be painful and then nothing .. it's got to be the most scary moment in the world and the reason it all ties back to the topic, during that time you are falling I know everyone that is alive would wish they could somehow reverse the decission and get back up nd not have to land
I was referring to the comparision, not the act of bridge jumping into a river,which is great craic...I have spoken to climbers who have fallen 100's of feet, including 1 who I based the current story on, who did indeed,suffer a 500ft screamer down the matterhorn .....they have said in most cases you black out, as the brain simply cannot cope with the overpowering sensation of falling not to mention the colosall overdose of adrenalin, coursing through your body...its either that or a massive heart attack and 1 did say he has heard of climbers being dead before they hit the ground ....
I've fallen 60ft down a very steep icy slope and I can tell you that I was unable to think at all..when you are falling the brain is overloaded with info,and fear ect, so it just shuts down...
Well, at least that's good, if the body is smart enough to shut down during horrific experiences like this, that might eliviate the pain of landing.
you would possibly feel zero but not all the time
ummm, guys bac to the subject. Lol! Yeah, I agree with sb, everyone keeps bringing up the subject that her husband has a new girlfriend and frowning on him for that. Everyone deals with things in there own way. Could you imagine having to sit there and argue with your wifes family on weather you wife dies or not. maybe he needs someone to go through this with him. After all it has been fifteen years, and that is a long time to be alone. I can't imagine being in this situation. Before I went blind, iworked as a certified nurses assistant in a nursing home. I can't tell you how many times families put there loved ones on feeding tubes or life support and they are in a veggie state. Can't get out of bed, can't move, and can only grown. Sad, sad, Yeah, it may keep them here on earth with them, but what is this doing for the person in this situation? Are they there with them twenty four seven. Heck no, most of them come as little as they possible can. Sad, sad situation to be in. Let the poor women go. I had never heard of the part that she is starting to learn i love you? Where did you come up with this? And yeah, maybe repetitiveness made her say this, but does she know what this means, and who she is saying this to? smile- angel
Why should what Terri wants matter? she's in this condition and I don't think she shold be kept alive and whether she wants to be or not should be irrelevant. It would be nice if she could be bumped off quickly but if she's just kicked out of the hospital and left to die, I don't see why that should be a problem. Afterall, she's going to die anyway and how should not be an issue since which ever way she's killed, it'll have the same outcome. I think all people in her condition if they're not gtoing to recover should be bumped off. Keeping them alive in beds which could be used to treat people who will recover is unacceptable.
Um, ww we all figured you would have some reply like that. Always have to be the under dog! so I'm not even going to argue that point. lol! smile- angel
It's not her fault she's in this condition. Sometimes, we just have to suck it up and care about someone other than ourselves. Take care of someone who can't care for themselves. There's so much to be depressed about, but seriously, we can care for others and hey, we might just change one life and make something better.
I have kept a very close ear on this story and my feelings on this is that her parents have the right to keep their daughter alive. From working with people with brain injuries and having one myself it is difficult to think that my life would have to end because my spouse wanted it to.Carol
hmmm, i can see what you are saying. But, at the same time, why would you want your famly and friends to suffer and have to be there for you all the time and you cna't even recognize what they are doing for you. I was in the hospital for almost three months when i went blind and I couldn't imagine putting my family and friends throught 15 years of it. Expecially when I have no life what so ever. smile- angel
Thnks for an interesting perspective. I just have a problem with the fact that her parents are saying that she is starting to try to talk. The thing is, we don't know the whole story. We rarely do. A lot of it's privacy which I respect too.
I think it is very difficult from all sides. Personally, I wouldn’t want my family to have to come and see me in a state like that for year after year aftr year. The longer I was like that, the longer it would be before they could grieve properly and get on with their lives. But from the other side, they do say that where there’s life there’s hope, and we hear these stories about people waking up out of comas after years of being in what was considered a vegetative state, and it only takes one such story for a desparate family to cling to the hope that their child too could make such a miraculous recovery, even though they know deep down that the ods of that happening are very slim.
The thing is, no matter what happens, someone's gonna walk around with a chip on their shoulder the rest of their lives. The parents will feel sad because they wish they could've done more or the husband will be ticked off (I won't say why because I haven't figured him out yet.)
I feel the parents have shown a complete disregard for their daughters wishes and/or feelings towards being left pvs...they have also shown a callous selfish disregard for her dignity as a human being...It makes you wonder what how they treated her prior to this tragedy.....
..Also should her husband be vilified for having a new girlfriend NO only the meanest narrow minded eejit would disagree with his attempt to move on.His in laws, should look to him as an example of courage and love in the face of terrible odds.
let go of the suffering! 15 years! way to long for the poor woman! I'm sure she wouldn't want this for herself! .. starving to death is so cruel and unjustified! :(
I guess it comes down to this .. it's no way to live, but it's no way to die. I personally wouldn't want to live in a state like that, and by the same token I wouldn't want my child to have to live in a state like that. But I also wouldn't want to starve to death, and I certainly wouldn't want to have to be the one that made the decision to starve my child to death. It's one thing withdrawing treatment, it's totally another taking a particular course of action which will, in effect, kill your child. We wouldn't let an animal die like that, so why a human being.
Now you're talking, SB! No, I'm not for what the woman's husband's all about. I don't dog him for having a new girlfriend though, because given all the little legalities of the situation, he could've dissolved the marriage, and just moved on. Did he stay married to her because he loved her, or was it money? I'm curious to know what he'll get when she dies? I honestly think if her parents wanted to pay her way, and take care of her, they should've had that opportunity! After all, they brought her into the world!
in actual fact, he won't get anything. the sum total of her estate will go to pay for her medical care, there will be about $40000 left and that is to go towards legal costs. so I definitely don't think it is a financial issue.
It's just such a terrible way to die!
yes it is, but all things considered, is there really a good way to die? I mean sure there are some ways which perhaps would be more preferable than others - when I go I want it to happen quickly, painlessly, but in all reality, there isn't really a good way to die.
quickly and without suffering... she should be given an overdose of barbiturate and allowed to slip away...
well apparently they have now inserted a morfeen drip, apparently her parents fear is now that they are going to give her an overdose to hasten her death .. personally I don't see that as being a bad thing - she's going to die anyway, it should be allowed to happen quickly now.